conditions for that extensive period of time. If they had
run a control E10 sample in parallel, we believe they
would have received the same result.
JOHNSON: Our position is the same. We stand by
our testing—which uses a long-term cycle and also
specs to the typical UL standards. On that basis, we
are confident in saying that our standard equipment
is safe and suitable up to E15. The conditions in the
NREL/UL study go farther than what we think is
JOURNAL: The NREL/UL report said that gaskets,
seals and hoses were particularly susceptible.
Are those results consistent with what you are
saying? Under the conditions of that test, are those
components what you would expect to fail?
JOURNAL: You have said that the legacy
equipment is safe and suitable for E15. But both
of your companies also have new dispensers that
are listed for E15. So, let’s ask the broad question:
What would you advise the marketer who wants
to switch to E15 as soon as it’s legal to do so?
Should they buy a new dispenser, should they
use their legacy equipment or does it matter?
JOHNSON: Ultimately the retailers will have to review
the local codes and their insurance and bank covenants.
If those require a product that is UL listed, then we offer
listed equipment for whatever fuel they plan to dispense.
If they want to dispense greater than 10 percent ethanol,
and UL-listed equipment is required, then they can
purchase listed equipment. But if an E15 listing is not
required, our standard equipment will be compatible
if they choose to pump higher blends.
JOURNAL: Compatible up to what level of
JOHNSON: We warrant up to 15 percent ethanol
with a standard dispenser. If you want to go higher than
that, we would recommend equipment that is listed
above 15 percent.
NEGLE Y: We would be in a similar position. If you
want to legally dispense E15 today, there is only one way
to do it, and that’s to put in a dispenser that has been
listed and approved for that fuel. That’s the only way to
do it. Of course, we understand that’s not necessarily
going to be feasible for a variety of reasons. So, we are
also looking to see what can be done in terms of kits that
would upgrade the seal packages to provide UL-listing
protection up to E25.
JOHNSON: Right. We’re working in conjunction
with UL and hope they will allow upgrade kits to solve
the problem for retailers whose equipment must
“We’re working in
conjunction with UL
and hope they will allow
upgrade kits to solve
the problem for retailers
whose equipment must
JOURNAL: How much time are we looking at for
a decision to allow an upgrade kit for the seal
JOHNSON: Well, that really will depend on UL’s point
of view on what would need to be replaced in the kit.
NEGLEY: One thing that came out is that up to E25, the
metals are not really affected. So your basic aluminum
piping and casting and metal alloys in existing equipment
really are fine and eventually will be listed. The only
thing that likely is going to have to be changed or
modified in the dispenser will be the seals. The scope of